The podcast "the Rules of the game": the intricacies of accounting for technological (and other) business
Hello, Habr! Today I decided to share with you the transcript of the first podcast episode "Rules of the game", in which I communicate with lawyers and experts on taxes.
/ photo Alan Cleaver CC
In our introductory issue you will find a story in which Sergey Yashin, the founder and Director of the outsourcing provider of accounting services "Yashin and Partners", shares his experience with myths and misconceptions in the field of accounting.
the
the
Alina: sitting in front of me, Sergei. He's a man with a beard, tattoos, skull t-shirt [anyone interested can look in his Facebook-profile]and while he deals with the bookkeeping! How did you decide to do this service?
In my opinion, the biggest misconception about accounting, accountants and all connected with it, is that accounting is a women in years, reactionaries. Nothing trendy, modern, interesting accounting can offer.
It is something very boring and very scary.
Sergey: Hello! The majority of our fellow citizens and entrepreneurs the same opinion. And it is quite reasonable, whether fortunately or unfortunately.
The story is quite interesting. Once destiny brought me to work in an accounting company. She was small, quite "Soviet". The idea that the guys wanted to propose was in the air, but the realization I did not like. Then with these guys I have not developed the relationship: they were too conservative.
Further, I understand that this is a trend, went to work in a fairly large audit and consulting and has been there the build process of such a service and at the same time the study of its market and opportunities. In the process discovered some interesting things. I met with a large number of colleagues from other audit and outsourcing companies. I saw some stereotypes, which for some reason people follow.
So historically, all auditors are strict, the men in ties, they sit at black tables, talking in incomprehensible phrases, the officialdom of them rushing, and with them it is impossible to talk in normal language. Auditing, and tax, inspection — always some stress. Accountant — the person without an interpreter it is impossible to communicate.
And when we started to work and translate different clients into "our" format, it became clear that at the end of the line of ordinary entrepreneurs. It could be a small family company or a fairly large holding, but people are the same everywhere. And, like all people, they are much easier to communicate with friends, acquaintances in common language. "Show-off" complicate the process, they aggravate an already difficult field, which is connected with the constant changing laws in the regulatory framework in practice.
Classic audit company is a big bureaucratic machine. She focused on his made-up plan, not what the market wants and entrepreneur. I am a very sociable person. With all clients I tried to communicate and find out what they want to see the service. I had the feeling that what is happening in the company [where I worked] is not what the entrepreneur wants.
We decided that we want this approach to the work of the accounting Department], which is probed from beginning to end, to ensure the normal entrepreneurs like us. First, we in the success of not that did not believe... When we took office, we even registration of legal persons was not yet.
The office is rented for the money, signed the letter of guarantee on paper, because the legal entity is still registered, and didn't want to miss. I went to the office and thought, "Work? It doesn't work? The whole market works differently. And we decided to stand out and go their own way". Then doubt quickly disappeared due to the large number of tasks and routine.
Now almost a year has passed. I turn around and think the vector is correct and the trend is right. Everything we do, close to the modern entrepreneurs in recent times is dramatically different business and approach [to it]. 10-15 years ago the main business was construction: sales of building materials, something serious, conservative, retrograde is the same as accountant of the rings and dark purple blouse.
Now format the other entrepreneurs. One of our clients is the managing partner of the group of companies. He's 26 years old.
People work with Viber headquartered in tel Aviv, they have a telecommunications Agency. The guys are very young. They dressed very simply stretched t-shirts, shorts. Guys not worried about this and do a pretty big business.
Alina: Cool!
Sergey: In this direction we orientirueshsya.
Alina: Tell me please, given that accounting is a conservative region, there was not any problems to show customers that it can be fun, convenient, described in human language? Maybe people came and said, "No, you guys are so fashionable, I'm afraid."
Sergey: I still get that feeling when I come to a meeting in a t-shirt and torn jeans. I think, uh, too much, I don't know who it is. Maybe sits a man in a tie and we work in different worlds.
There is such a thing, I call it "gravity", when like attracts like. Yes, we have a pretty conservative customers. Customer jacket very sheepishly looked at me in a red shirt, he waited for the other. But it was substantial enough to talk to someone for half an hour, and he understood that we understand the question. Everything else is not important.
Someone realized this and after some time took. And someone is not accepted, it means that we are not on the way. Still have the classic auditing of the company with the classic approach, where someone is comfortable to communicate at the level of the formalism. And we attract people who understand that everything is a facade, a cover, and it's not so important.
/ photo Zach Copley CC
the
Alina: once again for our listeners that the company "Yashin and partners" makes accounting and auditing, and helps small and large companies to build their business so they can do what they like, and make part of the issues related to accounting statements and various formal things beyond his day. Please tell me why this service is really needed and who, in your opinion, it is especially important?
Sergey: If you go from the General to the specific, the General vector of movement in the field of accounting services, or accounting in General is a format of outsourcing. In Europe and America 99% of businesses work with accounting offices, services. There is no concept of "personal accountant". It can be personal in family, as a tax consultant, but not as an accountant in the company.
In some countries there are legislative requirements: at the time of registration of the company within 10 days to bring a contract for service or the audit by the audit company. It is a guarantee that the entrepreneur will not stumble, will indeed follow along the correct path of Finance.
Russia still lags behind other countries in this direction. In the mid 90-ies of the people change qualification courses listened 1C, accountants, lawyers. A lawyer is very fashionable to be, but now is a good lawyers is not enough. In the courts a lot of them, they are willing to work for free. The same with accountants. The market is supersaturated in Moscow, in the regions, depending on the range, not so much.
The problem is accountants a lot of them are good units. Good professionals are in large companies, where there is a whole accounting departments where you can get training at the expense of the employer, where you can sit in the office with builders and accountants. Professional communication in this regard drawn.
Or the main part is adequate accountants in the auditing company for the same reasons. In a small business work a little. The entrepreneur believes if you work a little bit, she needs cost too little. Gives the vacancy of chief accountant with a salary of 30 or 50 thousand rubles.
50 thousand roubles — the average salary of a specialist in Moscow. But normal accountant for 50 thousand rubles, unfortunately, not found. It's an overpriced figure. Good salary starts from 85 thousand rubles.
While it is clear that in many companies money have nothing to do. The entrepreneur understands this and is looking for a bookkeeper on a part of the work. Respond to these proposals by those professionals who need, and those who realize that over 50 thousand rubles, most likely, will never. And such people quite a lot.
The output is that the small business changes in a year 5-6 senior accountants. Every accountant is trained to some extent and a cool company. There's nothing you can do except to make such services on outsourcing. We give the employer a very cool accountant, however, he pays only for the amount of work. And it's a feature!
Alina: and steep accountant may give the customer 20% of his time, and the rest deals with other matters, because for small business operations a little.
Sergey: Yes. Many listeners will say that it does comes once a week accountant. But the accountant comes in the day that he needs a schedule and not in the day when the client can make something happen. We work 365 days a year.
We have this, we're working with one client on Mondays, others on Tuesdays. Work we don't stop, it goes from morning to evening. We understand the challenges and are able to delegate within the accounting group. We distribute tasks, it turns out that the accountant can maintain multiple companies with no loss of quality, because there is a team.
Alina: what do you think, for accounting services by type outsourcing is preferable to apply the small companies or medium and large business can also work on this basis?
Sergey: Big business works on the principle of insourcing. It is the creation of its outsourcing company which is a holding company, but made for the state. Many companies, for example, Rosatom is moved.
Alina: In fact, they generate spin-offs.
Sergey: They do it themselves, because big business has no such contractors, which they could draw for such services. If you take the outsourcing company "number one" in Russia by turnover, it is unlikely she would have served Rosatom, preserving the quality for the remaining customers.
A lot of unique requirements for this accounting in addition to filing reports. In big business it does not take root. Small business — Yes, first, because of the cost, and secondly, because competence. The average business motivation for outsourcing may be a reluctance to bother, to delve, to take a staff of accountants, financial Directors, to be in control: I want to give and forget, even though it will be more expensive. In a small business — would be happy to pay, but there is no budget for one or two good accountants.
And most importantly, if a large company can hire a financial controller to validate his own accounting, small business accountant supervises the Director. He takes him and who he took — is not clear. How this person works, is also not clear. Can only be judged by their appearance: the accountant sits, 1S opened, documents brings — there is a sense that something is happening.
And how all of this turns on the output, only visible when submitting statements, and not the first, because we have a tax deadline of limitation is 3 years and the requirements from the tax office usually come a year or two. We are about the work of the accountant know in a few years.
Alina: If we talk about the transition from small business to medium, are there any limits? For example, he comes to you and says: "We want to use your services", and you answer: "No, guys, we can't afford..." are There any limits on speed, number of operations, even for something?
Sergey: the issue Here is not the number of operations in rpm is indirect indicators, but rather in the requirements of accounting are presented. For example, if you take the work with primary documents, a small document management company has hundreds of transactions per month. These are the documents that can be sent by scan and courier them somehow to work with.
When the document amounts to "football fields in a three-story building" (and there are such organizations), we are talking about how to properly divide the areas. Some parts effectively to make the outsourcing from the beginning. For example, many small companies we bill, make payment orders, model of all who can: Manager, accountant, assistant accountant.
As the company grows some parts effective to leave within the organization, because of the iteration and communication at this level is so essential, that take much staff time. If we talk about the speed in which outsourcing is still effective, it turns to one or two at a stretch is three billion rubles a year.
It is adjusted for the document, that the client is competent and understands what is effective to keep, and which part is associated with responsibility, competence, expertise can be put to outsourcing because it is a team work and not one person.
the
Alina: About accounts there are two polar myth. First that it is a very complex field of "nuclear physics", it is better not to touch, it is cooked there itself. The second myth that a small business may be a friend of the girl with some accounting course at the Institute, which everyone can do.
Accounting and reporting is a big responsibility for the business. Accountant has a lot to learn and be responsible, primarily, for rent, for those documents that come into the funds. For students who are not immersed in the subject of accounting, the question is: what should know and be able accountant? What a responsibility it is?
Sergey: Begin with the end. There is a moral responsibility to the employer. It is limited to the ephemeral code of ethics of accountants and conscience accountant, because in our country there are 402-FZ "On accounting", according to which the responsibility for the bookkeeping and submission of reports is only the Director-General of the organization.
Have hired an accountant, the outside accountant, in any case, for whatever this man did, the responsibility of the General Director financially and criminally. If there is any fraud, and the investigation established the participation of the chief accountant, this is a group of individuals, responsibility is distributed.
/ photo David Goehring CC
Take the standard situation — renting accountant incorrect reporting or delivery at the wrong time — such things that every company faces. All fines and penalties which are charged cannot be withheld from the accountant, there is no legal way of holding them with the accountant.
The responsibility of the accountant is always calculated in size, for example, 200 rubles for improper closing account — check it does not, and the sum of a penny. In 2016, these penalties increased. There are official penalties with accountant for incorrect, inaccurate reporting, violation of rules of conducting accounting registers. Fines paid are not in favor of the employer, not compensate for, reduce [his penalties]. They are paid in the budget.
If the Director warms the soul, except that he is also an accountant paid the money, I guess you could say that it was good. Overall, the situation is not solved.
In terms of a baseline, the tax code we have one for all companies: big and small. Laws are for everyone. In view of the congestion tax inspections of small businesses paid less attention to many of [the tax] doesn't get, there are even cases of not reporting.
Lately those who follow the changes in legislation on taxes, realize that the control is very much tougher even in terms of reporting. Imposed fines, which for small businesses can be significant. From the point of view of accounting it is important to understand the principles of formation and filing reports. Most importantly, if the accountant is not as competent as we would like, and the Director understands this, it would be good Director for the control of an accountant to study accounting, at least in General.
We have clients who have gone on courses of accounting, to speak with an accountant in the same language. People studied for a year in order to understand what is happening. It also allows to understand makes something an accountant.
Recent case: a company on the simplified tax system pay the accountant a pretty good salary for 5 years, Director worked in sales and didn't get involved in anything, he was just not interested. Accountant periodically disappeared, didn't contact the Director got tired, he came to us. We asked the accountant database and within a month have not received it. The accountant was hiding.
When I got base, I understood why: in 5 years there was never a single document. All reports were "drawn", the accounting was not conducted, and the man received the money. If he had at least some understanding of what was happening, he could request access to the database, access account balances and see what all there is.
These are things that in modern society, I believe, need to know. It's like English. I understand, Alina, that you are very familiar with the English language. At least I can distinguish it from German and French and understand what was going on. Approximately in the same basic vein, I would recommend to understand the situation on taxes and accounting.
Alina: most Importantly, we must understand that even if you don't want to understand it, then you still can not pass. If you are a Manager of the company, it will be on your conscience.
Sergey: exactly. The accountant can make mistakes not intentionally — something I do not know. Delegating powers, unfortunately, we can't delegate responsibility. Adjusted to work with autsorsingovoe company we understand this injustice and the contract clearly specified that all fines and penalties that are our fault occur, we fully compensate and take over.
Probably every self-respecting company should do the same. There are amendments to the limits of this responsibility, physically there will be a compensation. Outsourcing is interesting because it is one of the few systems, which allows you to delegate responsibility to the contractor and to the contractor. We're not talking about criminal liability, if the company does not pay taxes.
Alina: Outsourcing — this work is not for fear but for conscience, because the environment itself dictates such conditions.
Sergey: Yes, of course. Any outsourcing company, including ours, would like to strike that item from the contract and say: "We made a mistake we will apologize and you will pay". On the one hand, the environment, and on the other... When we started, we had a table with the movement of money with some planning, but first and foremost, we wanted to do well.
When working with clients, we clearly understand that in addition to the accountant want to give people another. We conscience will not allow to delete that line from the contract. Many customers don't know about it and not ask, but we have that responsibility. If we make a mistake, it is our honor it will be more expensive penalties.
If a fine is assessed more than our honour, that is, the insurance company that insured our liability: if we can't at the expense of their reserves, this compensation arrange, have [the agreement] "Rosgosstrakh", which is the practice of payments in these areas. They have the act, and the insurance company reimburses the damage.
/ photo dun_deagh CC
the
Alina: You were talking about what should know and be able accountant, and mentioned that the tax law is continually changing: new items, new articles.
For the accountant it is important not just to correctly maintain records, we must be aware of the fact that you receive and keep a track of "new". It turns out that the accountant — a person who is "on the edge" of the entire process.
Sergey: Accountant — an analogy with operations to track the target, following the rear, looking over the availability of ammunition, connected by radio with the commander and tries to predict the further actions. Accountant to be not easy.
Many accountants live in ignorance of these events. We regularly conduct interviews, and sometimes the question is relevant in 2015, people wrong answer. We understand that they are stuck in 2013-2014, because their current company such cases were not, or they did not know about the changes and work the old fashioned way.
To keep all changes — great job. The advantage to the modifications is arbitration, which, it so happens in our country, very far from the tax code. If you open the help system "Consultant" or a "guarantor" and see how many changes and amendments to laws relating to business, published daily, we see that 15 to 47: letters, amendments, changes.
If this number is multiplied by the number of days of the month, we understand that there are tax issues can be 25%. No normal person alone will not be able to understand all the nuances, to understand how it really works, and then how it will look to the tax inspection.
With the growth of our team we feel a synergy plus, which is due to the large number of different tasks to different professionals. Well, when the accountant cooks in its own juices, but one head is good, two better, and ten or twenty is better. The fact that different clients have different situations, allows us to create intelligent cumulative situations and from there take the information.
Alina: If a person works as an accountant in the same company, he was used to that business which is conducted in this company and to those cases which occur there. This does not mean that he can go to your firm if it is doing something else, with the same success to work there and constantly understand that new what was happening, alone.
Sergey: is different. Take accountant with very specific background, and then, when there are difficult moments, reporting, taxation, accountant, referring to his last work, obviously doing wrong on the principle: "I just do, everything will be okay". The reaction to this may be so: "Once there was a ride, we're here now so let's do it". Although this is not the same thing.
The accountants that are boiled in the same business, narrowing the horizons. For example, accounting in the showroom simple but very specific. People spent 10-15 years in the showroom, are unlikely to come to the construction company and work efficiently.
Alina: Accounting is a question which can be put on the outsourcing turns out to be specific to different businesses. For me, it's a new moment from the point of view of how it works.
Sergey: Yes, it [accounting] has the specific moments. 60% this interactions, base: reporting and record keeping. Reinventing the wheel is not necessary. Different rules of reporting for different companies.
We are talking about assistance to the entrepreneur in these matters, when the accountant is not just a pipeline for issuing reports that have nothing to do with the business that aren't working on the business. They formal. We say that the accountant and adviser, the man who plans and analyzes, helps to deal with this owner.
Specificity plays a very important role. For example, the construction is an interesting industry. Many accountants from her spit because she's partially black. Well, as "black"? Documents do not come on time, they are pretty low quality, estimates superintendents write on pieces of paper in the box, these leaflets photograph and send to the accounting Department.
To make the act KS-2, KS-3, we have to sit and figure it out. Here we work better and understand better what the customer wants, if the accountant didn't just work for a construction company and knows what a construction site. We have an employee who in addition to accounting education is in engineering in construction. It is much easier to understand what is happening on the site.
If you give him the document, which are filled somehow incorrect, he's not just blindly accepts it, he looks and asks, "How are you on this number of positions going to collect? You have here the consumption is different. Here you will not be able to use such beams."
Jokes aside, but it happens. The client was in shock from the conversation with the accountant, he just wasn't expecting it. Of course, it is not always possible so a deep understanding of the industry, but if it works out, then it is easier to work with and the client feels that we speak the same language.
Alina: Accountant sees the entire logic of the process. It's cool, of course.
Sergey: Is the way it is. It does not always work, now the business is changing, a lot of new industries, in which we immerse the client, talks about his business, and we even didn't know about it. Didn't know that it is possible to build a company or processes.
But it is doubly interesting. We always understand and delve into the inner kitchen of the client, trying to come to the office to see what they have going on, how the process. This is important in order to continue to operate properly.
Alina: You say that you delve into the client, you want to be friends with him. In fact, working to do good, not just to hire many people and take many businesses into circulation. And this is the keynote throughout your workflow.
When we talked before, you mentioned that you somehow mysteriously catch up projects, the credo of which is also "doing good." How did this happen? Around you formed a "company of companies"?
Sergey: Yes, the "company of companies". On the one hand, for me it is still a mystery, on the other hand, I sincerely believe that accidents are not accidental, all for something happening. I think the interaction with people an informal feeling beyond words a message. I understand on the same wavelength we are with someone or not.
Why is this happening? Probably because, objectively, comes a new generation of entrepreneurs to replace those who have been in the 90-ies. In 90-e years have been a difficult situation with money, with the economy. Money was the first necessity. Every business was designed to openly "muddy dough", and that was interest.
Young educated people understand that money is good, but they need it for something. In addition, there are some constructive activities, which a person receives pleasure. The more such people become, as they are really more and we can feel it, the stronger is changing and our country, and entrepreneurs become very different. Their just getting bigger in proportions.
Well, as they are attracted to us, don't know, magic some magic. We are so tuned in, we are confident that we will find our partners and friends who are with us will be comfortable and whom we help, whom we will not abandon. People feel it and are attracted. In this case, perhaps other people are attracted to others. Energy. Like this.
Alina: like attracts Like. Business for people attracted to outsourcing for people.
Sergey: as it turns out. We love people, we do not hide it, we talk about it. We have employees with the same attitude. We have no legalistic relations on the principle of "customer – contractor". We don't poke each other in the contract. We have a portfolio of clients, about 30% of my good friends with whom we are friends families. We hold not so much a contract as moral obligation.
Therefore, we, first and foremost, motivated to the people with whom we work and whom we promised something, got what we're talking about. Well, the financial part of it somehow follows. But this is a separate epic. Just everyone working a certain number of hours of your life. If the first goal is money, it's probably not exactly what you need with you-all won't. A process in which people are involved, have the pleasure to bring.
Many customers are surprised: "Accounting is a profession, sitting, stick in the base. That even interesting?" And we girls really enjoying this, some 7-8 in the evening home I will not drive. They sit, they are interested in something to understand. We and the staff are the same as we, come the fanatics to some extent. This is incorrect, something for which all was intended.
P. S. If you have any questions that you can ask right here (in comments), feel free to write. I'll pass this on to Sergei and get back to you with answers.
Article based on information from habrahabr.ru
/ photo Alan Cleaver CCIn our introductory issue you will find a story in which Sergey Yashin, the founder and Director of the outsourcing provider of accounting services "Yashin and Partners", shares his experience with myths and misconceptions in the field of accounting.
How to listen to the audio version of the podcast:
the
-
the
- subscribe to RSS the
- Subscribe in iTunes the
- View in browser the
- Download audio file of the release
the
Myth 1: the Accountant does not know how to explain "in simple words"
Alina: sitting in front of me, Sergei. He's a man with a beard, tattoos, skull t-shirt [anyone interested can look in his Facebook-profile]and while he deals with the bookkeeping! How did you decide to do this service?
In my opinion, the biggest misconception about accounting, accountants and all connected with it, is that accounting is a women in years, reactionaries. Nothing trendy, modern, interesting accounting can offer.
It is something very boring and very scary.
Sergey: Hello! The majority of our fellow citizens and entrepreneurs the same opinion. And it is quite reasonable, whether fortunately or unfortunately.
The story is quite interesting. Once destiny brought me to work in an accounting company. She was small, quite "Soviet". The idea that the guys wanted to propose was in the air, but the realization I did not like. Then with these guys I have not developed the relationship: they were too conservative.
Further, I understand that this is a trend, went to work in a fairly large audit and consulting and has been there the build process of such a service and at the same time the study of its market and opportunities. In the process discovered some interesting things. I met with a large number of colleagues from other audit and outsourcing companies. I saw some stereotypes, which for some reason people follow.
So historically, all auditors are strict, the men in ties, they sit at black tables, talking in incomprehensible phrases, the officialdom of them rushing, and with them it is impossible to talk in normal language. Auditing, and tax, inspection — always some stress. Accountant — the person without an interpreter it is impossible to communicate.
And when we started to work and translate different clients into "our" format, it became clear that at the end of the line of ordinary entrepreneurs. It could be a small family company or a fairly large holding, but people are the same everywhere. And, like all people, they are much easier to communicate with friends, acquaintances in common language. "Show-off" complicate the process, they aggravate an already difficult field, which is connected with the constant changing laws in the regulatory framework in practice.
Classic audit company is a big bureaucratic machine. She focused on his made-up plan, not what the market wants and entrepreneur. I am a very sociable person. With all clients I tried to communicate and find out what they want to see the service. I had the feeling that what is happening in the company [where I worked] is not what the entrepreneur wants.
it is Strange that the market was not the company that could give.
We decided that we want this approach to the work of the accounting Department], which is probed from beginning to end, to ensure the normal entrepreneurs like us. First, we in the success of not that did not believe... When we took office, we even registration of legal persons was not yet.
The office is rented for the money, signed the letter of guarantee on paper, because the legal entity is still registered, and didn't want to miss. I went to the office and thought, "Work? It doesn't work? The whole market works differently. And we decided to stand out and go their own way". Then doubt quickly disappeared due to the large number of tasks and routine.
Now almost a year has passed. I turn around and think the vector is correct and the trend is right. Everything we do, close to the modern entrepreneurs in recent times is dramatically different business and approach [to it]. 10-15 years ago the main business was construction: sales of building materials, something serious, conservative, retrograde is the same as accountant of the rings and dark purple blouse.
Now format the other entrepreneurs. One of our clients is the managing partner of the group of companies. He's 26 years old.
He does bloccano, neural networks, all those that do not understand any person of the 90-ies: what it is and how it is possible to build a business?
People work with Viber headquartered in tel Aviv, they have a telecommunications Agency. The guys are very young. They dressed very simply stretched t-shirts, shorts. Guys not worried about this and do a pretty big business.
Alina: Cool!
Sergey: In this direction we orientirueshsya.
Alina: Tell me please, given that accounting is a conservative region, there was not any problems to show customers that it can be fun, convenient, described in human language? Maybe people came and said, "No, you guys are so fashionable, I'm afraid."
Sergey: I still get that feeling when I come to a meeting in a t-shirt and torn jeans. I think, uh, too much, I don't know who it is. Maybe sits a man in a tie and we work in different worlds.
There is such a thing, I call it "gravity", when like attracts like. Yes, we have a pretty conservative customers. Customer jacket very sheepishly looked at me in a red shirt, he waited for the other. But it was substantial enough to talk to someone for half an hour, and he understood that we understand the question. Everything else is not important.
Someone realized this and after some time took. And someone is not accepted, it means that we are not on the way. Still have the classic auditing of the company with the classic approach, where someone is comfortable to communicate at the level of the formalism. And we attract people who understand that everything is a facade, a cover, and it's not so important.
/ photo Zach Copley CC
the
Myth 2: Outsourcing will not be able to understand your specificity and details
Alina: once again for our listeners that the company "Yashin and partners" makes accounting and auditing, and helps small and large companies to build their business so they can do what they like, and make part of the issues related to accounting statements and various formal things beyond his day. Please tell me why this service is really needed and who, in your opinion, it is especially important?
Sergey: If you go from the General to the specific, the General vector of movement in the field of accounting services, or accounting in General is a format of outsourcing. In Europe and America 99% of businesses work with accounting offices, services. There is no concept of "personal accountant". It can be personal in family, as a tax consultant, but not as an accountant in the company.
In some countries there are legislative requirements: at the time of registration of the company within 10 days to bring a contract for service or the audit by the audit company. It is a guarantee that the entrepreneur will not stumble, will indeed follow along the correct path of Finance.
Russia still lags behind other countries in this direction. In the mid 90-ies of the people change qualification courses listened 1C, accountants, lawyers. A lawyer is very fashionable to be, but now is a good lawyers is not enough. In the courts a lot of them, they are willing to work for free. The same with accountants. The market is supersaturated in Moscow, in the regions, depending on the range, not so much.
The problem is accountants a lot of them are good units. Good professionals are in large companies, where there is a whole accounting departments where you can get training at the expense of the employer, where you can sit in the office with builders and accountants. Professional communication in this regard drawn.
Or the main part is adequate accountants in the auditing company for the same reasons. In a small business work a little. The entrepreneur believes if you work a little bit, she needs cost too little. Gives the vacancy of chief accountant with a salary of 30 or 50 thousand rubles.
50 thousand roubles — the average salary of a specialist in Moscow. But normal accountant for 50 thousand rubles, unfortunately, not found. It's an overpriced figure. Good salary starts from 85 thousand rubles.
While it is clear that in many companies money have nothing to do. The entrepreneur understands this and is looking for a bookkeeper on a part of the work. Respond to these proposals by those professionals who need, and those who realize that over 50 thousand rubles, most likely, will never. And such people quite a lot.
The output is that the small business changes in a year 5-6 senior accountants. Every accountant is trained to some extent and a cool company. There's nothing you can do except to make such services on outsourcing. We give the employer a very cool accountant, however, he pays only for the amount of work. And it's a feature!
Alina: and steep accountant may give the customer 20% of his time, and the rest deals with other matters, because for small business operations a little.
Sergey: Yes. Many listeners will say that it does comes once a week accountant. But the accountant comes in the day that he needs a schedule and not in the day when the client can make something happen. We work 365 days a year.
We have this, we're working with one client on Mondays, others on Tuesdays. Work we don't stop, it goes from morning to evening. We understand the challenges and are able to delegate within the accounting group. We distribute tasks, it turns out that the accountant can maintain multiple companies with no loss of quality, because there is a team.
Alina: what do you think, for accounting services by type outsourcing is preferable to apply the small companies or medium and large business can also work on this basis?
Sergey: Big business works on the principle of insourcing. It is the creation of its outsourcing company which is a holding company, but made for the state. Many companies, for example, Rosatom is moved.
Alina: In fact, they generate spin-offs.
Sergey: They do it themselves, because big business has no such contractors, which they could draw for such services. If you take the outsourcing company "number one" in Russia by turnover, it is unlikely she would have served Rosatom, preserving the quality for the remaining customers.
A lot of unique requirements for this accounting in addition to filing reports. In big business it does not take root. Small business — Yes, first, because of the cost, and secondly, because competence. The average business motivation for outsourcing may be a reluctance to bother, to delve, to take a staff of accountants, financial Directors, to be in control: I want to give and forget, even though it will be more expensive. In a small business — would be happy to pay, but there is no budget for one or two good accountants.
And most importantly, if a large company can hire a financial controller to validate his own accounting, small business accountant supervises the Director. He takes him and who he took — is not clear. How this person works, is also not clear. Can only be judged by their appearance: the accountant sits, 1S opened, documents brings — there is a sense that something is happening.
And how all of this turns on the output, only visible when submitting statements, and not the first, because we have a tax deadline of limitation is 3 years and the requirements from the tax office usually come a year or two. We are about the work of the accountant know in a few years.
Alina: If we talk about the transition from small business to medium, are there any limits? For example, he comes to you and says: "We want to use your services", and you answer: "No, guys, we can't afford..." are There any limits on speed, number of operations, even for something?
Sergey: the issue Here is not the number of operations in rpm is indirect indicators, but rather in the requirements of accounting are presented. For example, if you take the work with primary documents, a small document management company has hundreds of transactions per month. These are the documents that can be sent by scan and courier them somehow to work with.
When the document amounts to "football fields in a three-story building" (and there are such organizations), we are talking about how to properly divide the areas. Some parts effectively to make the outsourcing from the beginning. For example, many small companies we bill, make payment orders, model of all who can: Manager, accountant, assistant accountant.
As the company grows some parts effective to leave within the organization, because of the iteration and communication at this level is so essential, that take much staff time. If we talk about the speed in which outsourcing is still effective, it turns to one or two at a stretch is three billion rubles a year.
It is adjusted for the document, that the client is competent and understands what is effective to keep, and which part is associated with responsibility, competence, expertise can be put to outsourcing because it is a team work and not one person.
the
Myth 3: "I Have a friend girl — she will understand"
Alina: About accounts there are two polar myth. First that it is a very complex field of "nuclear physics", it is better not to touch, it is cooked there itself. The second myth that a small business may be a friend of the girl with some accounting course at the Institute, which everyone can do.
Accounting and reporting is a big responsibility for the business. Accountant has a lot to learn and be responsible, primarily, for rent, for those documents that come into the funds. For students who are not immersed in the subject of accounting, the question is: what should know and be able accountant? What a responsibility it is?
Sergey: Begin with the end. There is a moral responsibility to the employer. It is limited to the ephemeral code of ethics of accountants and conscience accountant, because in our country there are 402-FZ "On accounting", according to which the responsibility for the bookkeeping and submission of reports is only the Director-General of the organization.
Have hired an accountant, the outside accountant, in any case, for whatever this man did, the responsibility of the General Director financially and criminally. If there is any fraud, and the investigation established the participation of the chief accountant, this is a group of individuals, responsibility is distributed.
/ photo David Goehring CC
Take the standard situation — renting accountant incorrect reporting or delivery at the wrong time — such things that every company faces. All fines and penalties which are charged cannot be withheld from the accountant, there is no legal way of holding them with the accountant.
The responsibility of the accountant is always calculated in size, for example, 200 rubles for improper closing account — check it does not, and the sum of a penny. In 2016, these penalties increased. There are official penalties with accountant for incorrect, inaccurate reporting, violation of rules of conducting accounting registers. Fines paid are not in favor of the employer, not compensate for, reduce [his penalties]. They are paid in the budget.
If the Director warms the soul, except that he is also an accountant paid the money, I guess you could say that it was good. Overall, the situation is not solved.
In terms of a baseline, the tax code we have one for all companies: big and small. Laws are for everyone. In view of the congestion tax inspections of small businesses paid less attention to many of [the tax] doesn't get, there are even cases of not reporting.
One of the recent cases: a young man opened the SP. And we have now a Regulation on tax holidays for new IP: people don't pay taxes for 2 years if they fall under a specific NACE. Comrade café. There he pours tea, sells juices. He read that there are Okwedy the production of teas and juices, and I read something about tax holidays. But only the production of tea is not a tea bag brewing in Cup, and to collect from the Bush, to dry, to pack.
He works half a year and not pay taxes at all, honestly thinking that he is on the tax holidays. And he needs to pay taxes. But he doesn't it's not a requirement no one has written, because he is in the queue, can, 586 or 1586, and hands to him yet do not reach. But the rules are the same. For a small company, correct accounting — the basis of the fact that in the future when a change of accounting these accounts will continue to be adequate.
Lately those who follow the changes in legislation on taxes, realize that the control is very much tougher even in terms of reporting. Imposed fines, which for small businesses can be significant. From the point of view of accounting it is important to understand the principles of formation and filing reports. Most importantly, if the accountant is not as competent as we would like, and the Director understands this, it would be good Director for the control of an accountant to study accounting, at least in General.
We have clients who have gone on courses of accounting, to speak with an accountant in the same language. People studied for a year in order to understand what is happening. It also allows to understand makes something an accountant.
Recent case: a company on the simplified tax system pay the accountant a pretty good salary for 5 years, Director worked in sales and didn't get involved in anything, he was just not interested. Accountant periodically disappeared, didn't contact the Director got tired, he came to us. We asked the accountant database and within a month have not received it. The accountant was hiding.
When I got base, I understood why: in 5 years there was never a single document. All reports were "drawn", the accounting was not conducted, and the man received the money. If he had at least some understanding of what was happening, he could request access to the database, access account balances and see what all there is.
These are things that in modern society, I believe, need to know. It's like English. I understand, Alina, that you are very familiar with the English language. At least I can distinguish it from German and French and understand what was going on. Approximately in the same basic vein, I would recommend to understand the situation on taxes and accounting.
Alina: most Importantly, we must understand that even if you don't want to understand it, then you still can not pass. If you are a Manager of the company, it will be on your conscience.
Sergey: exactly. The accountant can make mistakes not intentionally — something I do not know. Delegating powers, unfortunately, we can't delegate responsibility. Adjusted to work with autsorsingovoe company we understand this injustice and the contract clearly specified that all fines and penalties that are our fault occur, we fully compensate and take over.
Probably every self-respecting company should do the same. There are amendments to the limits of this responsibility, physically there will be a compensation. Outsourcing is interesting because it is one of the few systems, which allows you to delegate responsibility to the contractor and to the contractor. We're not talking about criminal liability, if the company does not pay taxes.
Alina: Outsourcing — this work is not for fear but for conscience, because the environment itself dictates such conditions.
Sergey: Yes, of course. Any outsourcing company, including ours, would like to strike that item from the contract and say: "We made a mistake we will apologize and you will pay". On the one hand, the environment, and on the other... When we started, we had a table with the movement of money with some planning, but first and foremost, we wanted to do well.
When working with clients, we clearly understand that in addition to the accountant want to give people another. We conscience will not allow to delete that line from the contract. Many customers don't know about it and not ask, but we have that responsibility. If we make a mistake, it is our honor it will be more expensive penalties.
If a fine is assessed more than our honour, that is, the insurance company that insured our liability: if we can't at the expense of their reserves, this compensation arrange, have [the agreement] "Rosgosstrakh", which is the practice of payments in these areas. They have the act, and the insurance company reimburses the damage.
/ photo dun_deagh CC
the
Myth 4: "I just do, everything will be okay"
Alina: You were talking about what should know and be able accountant, and mentioned that the tax law is continually changing: new items, new articles.
For the accountant it is important not just to correctly maintain records, we must be aware of the fact that you receive and keep a track of "new". It turns out that the accountant — a person who is "on the edge" of the entire process.
Sergey: Accountant — an analogy with operations to track the target, following the rear, looking over the availability of ammunition, connected by radio with the commander and tries to predict the further actions. Accountant to be not easy.
Many accountants live in ignorance of these events. We regularly conduct interviews, and sometimes the question is relevant in 2015, people wrong answer. We understand that they are stuck in 2013-2014, because their current company such cases were not, or they did not know about the changes and work the old fashioned way.
To keep all changes — great job. The advantage to the modifications is arbitration, which, it so happens in our country, very far from the tax code. If you open the help system "Consultant" or a "guarantor" and see how many changes and amendments to laws relating to business, published daily, we see that 15 to 47: letters, amendments, changes.
If this number is multiplied by the number of days of the month, we understand that there are tax issues can be 25%. No normal person alone will not be able to understand all the nuances, to understand how it really works, and then how it will look to the tax inspection.
With the growth of our team we feel a synergy plus, which is due to the large number of different tasks to different professionals. Well, when the accountant cooks in its own juices, but one head is good, two better, and ten or twenty is better. The fact that different clients have different situations, allows us to create intelligent cumulative situations and from there take the information.
Alina: If a person works as an accountant in the same company, he was used to that business which is conducted in this company and to those cases which occur there. This does not mean that he can go to your firm if it is doing something else, with the same success to work there and constantly understand that new what was happening, alone.
Sergey: is different. Take accountant with very specific background, and then, when there are difficult moments, reporting, taxation, accountant, referring to his last work, obviously doing wrong on the principle: "I just do, everything will be okay". The reaction to this may be so: "Once there was a ride, we're here now so let's do it". Although this is not the same thing.
The accountants that are boiled in the same business, narrowing the horizons. For example, accounting in the showroom simple but very specific. People spent 10-15 years in the showroom, are unlikely to come to the construction company and work efficiently.
Alina: Accounting is a question which can be put on the outsourcing turns out to be specific to different businesses. For me, it's a new moment from the point of view of how it works.
Sergey: Yes, it [accounting] has the specific moments. 60% this interactions, base: reporting and record keeping. Reinventing the wheel is not necessary. Different rules of reporting for different companies.
We are talking about assistance to the entrepreneur in these matters, when the accountant is not just a pipeline for issuing reports that have nothing to do with the business that aren't working on the business. They formal. We say that the accountant and adviser, the man who plans and analyzes, helps to deal with this owner.
Specificity plays a very important role. For example, the construction is an interesting industry. Many accountants from her spit because she's partially black. Well, as "black"? Documents do not come on time, they are pretty low quality, estimates superintendents write on pieces of paper in the box, these leaflets photograph and send to the accounting Department.
To make the act KS-2, KS-3, we have to sit and figure it out. Here we work better and understand better what the customer wants, if the accountant didn't just work for a construction company and knows what a construction site. We have an employee who in addition to accounting education is in engineering in construction. It is much easier to understand what is happening on the site.
If you give him the document, which are filled somehow incorrect, he's not just blindly accepts it, he looks and asks, "How are you on this number of positions going to collect? You have here the consumption is different. Here you will not be able to use such beams."
Jokes aside, but it happens. The client was in shock from the conversation with the accountant, he just wasn't expecting it. Of course, it is not always possible so a deep understanding of the industry, but if it works out, then it is easier to work with and the client feels that we speak the same language.
Alina: Accountant sees the entire logic of the process. It's cool, of course.
Sergey: Is the way it is. It does not always work, now the business is changing, a lot of new industries, in which we immerse the client, talks about his business, and we even didn't know about it. Didn't know that it is possible to build a company or processes.
But it is doubly interesting. We always understand and delve into the inner kitchen of the client, trying to come to the office to see what they have going on, how the process. This is important in order to continue to operate properly.
Alina: You say that you delve into the client, you want to be friends with him. In fact, working to do good, not just to hire many people and take many businesses into circulation. And this is the keynote throughout your workflow.
When we talked before, you mentioned that you somehow mysteriously catch up projects, the credo of which is also "doing good." How did this happen? Around you formed a "company of companies"?
Sergey: Yes, the "company of companies". On the one hand, for me it is still a mystery, on the other hand, I sincerely believe that accidents are not accidental, all for something happening. I think the interaction with people an informal feeling beyond words a message. I understand on the same wavelength we are with someone or not.
Why is this happening? Probably because, objectively, comes a new generation of entrepreneurs to replace those who have been in the 90-ies. In 90-e years have been a difficult situation with money, with the economy. Money was the first necessity. Every business was designed to openly "muddy dough", and that was interest.
Young educated people understand that money is good, but they need it for something. In addition, there are some constructive activities, which a person receives pleasure. The more such people become, as they are really more and we can feel it, the stronger is changing and our country, and entrepreneurs become very different. Their just getting bigger in proportions.
Well, as they are attracted to us, don't know, magic some magic. We are so tuned in, we are confident that we will find our partners and friends who are with us will be comfortable and whom we help, whom we will not abandon. People feel it and are attracted. In this case, perhaps other people are attracted to others. Energy. Like this.
Alina: like attracts Like. Business for people attracted to outsourcing for people.
Sergey: as it turns out. We love people, we do not hide it, we talk about it. We have employees with the same attitude. We have no legalistic relations on the principle of "customer – contractor". We don't poke each other in the contract. We have a portfolio of clients, about 30% of my good friends with whom we are friends families. We hold not so much a contract as moral obligation.
Therefore, we, first and foremost, motivated to the people with whom we work and whom we promised something, got what we're talking about. Well, the financial part of it somehow follows. But this is a separate epic. Just everyone working a certain number of hours of your life. If the first goal is money, it's probably not exactly what you need with you-all won't. A process in which people are involved, have the pleasure to bring.
Many customers are surprised: "Accounting is a profession, sitting, stick in the base. That even interesting?" And we girls really enjoying this, some 7-8 in the evening home I will not drive. They sit, they are interested in something to understand. We and the staff are the same as we, come the fanatics to some extent. This is incorrect, something for which all was intended.
P. S. If you have any questions that you can ask right here (in comments), feel free to write. I'll pass this on to Sergei and get back to you with answers.
